randal-pflecs
Me at PF Lectures

This was an idea I started when looking over the topics listed for the Preacher’s Files Lectureship. I wound up going with another topic of my own suggestion (“You Can Be Sure About the Power of the Gospel“), but this still intrigues me and calls me to do something with it.

  • You Can Be Sure About Salvation in Christ
    • About its beginning point
    • About its continuing action
    • About its future reception
    • About its proclamation

How would you develop these points?

19 thoughts on “Beginnings of an outline: Sure about salvation

  1. WordPress suggested that I look at this site, so here am I!

    “Certainty of salvation” has never been a Christian stance, but that does not mean that Jesus cannot surely save us. He, not us, is our judge, and saints through history never presumed that they knew their eternal fate.

    Philippians 3:13,14 and 1 Corinthians 4:4 would be useful. Even St. Paul did not know he would be saved.

    • You’re right about Jesus being our judge, but to say that no saint (which includes the “everyday” Christian) was ever sure about his or her salvation is a bit of an overstatement concerning what Philippians 3:13-14 and 1 Corinthians 4:4 says.

      Please consider the following:

      “Make a test of yourselves, if you are in the faith; make certain of yourselves. Or are you not conscious in yourselves that Jesus Christ is in you, if you are truly Christ’s?” (2 Corinthians 13:5)

      “And for which I undergo these things: but I have no feeling of shame. For I have knowledge of him in whom I have faith, and I am certain that he is able to keep that which I have given into his care till that day.” (2 Timothy 1:12 – BBE)

      “I have put these things in writing for you who have faith in the name of the Son of God, so that you may be certain that you have eternal life.” (John 5:13 – BBE)

      • Wow, pope Eugene is here! You were so unable and afraid to respond to me on your own blog…

        Nope, not an overstatement. Your modern sect might be different than historical Christianity, but it has never been a Christian stance (I’m talking about reality–not some sort of make believe revisionist CofC fantasy history).

        BTW, the verses you mention don’t support certainty of salvation. There is no way to square your theory of CofS and your verses with the scriptures I mentioned. Hmmm…. this should be a teaching moment for you, Eugene! It’s almost as if Jesus built a Church that is the rightful interpreter of her own Scriptures… And of course, that Church is the same Church that wrote every verse you mentioned–the Catholic Church.

        • Wow, smart mouth Patrick is back! And you wonder why people don’t respond to you in any sort of positive or engaging way. I should have known better. You really need to replace your gravatar with a different image, for the love of God and His truth is the last thing that flows from your mouth (Matthew 23:37; 2 Thessalonians 2:8-12).

          Now you can go back to name calling and persecuting people with whatever sword you and your church sees fit instead of converting the soul of others with the sword of the Spirit – which is the word of God (Ephesians 6:17 – which just so happens to be a verse that also connects the hope of salvation to a helmet that can be trusted).

          Only someone with a heart and mind seared with the words of manmade traditions can ignore what the apostle John plainly said in 1 John 5:13 when it comes to the surety of one’s salvation.

          • Ha!

            There’s a difference between being persecuted and being a prig.

            Your sect/group is the epitome of a “man-made tradition”, Eugene. The Catholic Church was created by Jesus, and your sect/group is a group that ADMITS that it is an impostor.* The way I do religion is honest, and honest people appreciate it–the fruit of my style is overwhelmingly positive (it attracts people who prefer to insert reason into religion). Of course, people like you won’t like it. Nothing new here.

            *Impostor: Patternism = a modern group taking another group’s scriptures, and then imitating the group found in the scriptures. Patterinism = X trying to imitate Y. Patternism presupposes a Church that must be imitated.

            Sorry, dude. Not only is your job a hoax, but it’s based on an admitted lie; based on the fact that, at best, the Protestant CofC can only pretend to be the Church. SO NO WONDER why you don’t understand any of the scriptures you rattle off! Scripture only makes sense if it is allowed to speak within the context that it was created–the living (not 19th century impostor) Church.

            If you ever get over yourself (your pride), and realize that you’re not the pope, and want to learn about the Bible, let me know! I help lots of CofC people–I enjoy it.
            Pax

        • Only a person subject to Matthew 15:1-9 can ignore what is plainly said about the ability of a person to be sure of his or her salvation – “I have put these things in writing for you who have faith in the name of the Son of God, so that you may be certain that you have eternal life.” (1 John 5:13)

          Any body that bows before an apostate head and refuses to hear the heavenly head of the church is a body that is severed from Christ.

          Talk all day about whatever “history” you think supports your abominable church, but history has shown from the perversion of worship, to the perversion of leadership, to the slaughter committed by physical swords, to the modern-day attempt to cover-up the abuse of children through the hands of pure evil, and right up to your foul-mouthed egotistical “Dennis Miller” attitude (of which you’re proud to be compared to) your “church” sure has revealed what kind of fruit your doctrine leads to.

          Keep talking, for the more you say, the more you prove what I say to be correct.

          • Trash-talking Eugene shows his true colors again! The apostate, abominable Church that you hate is neither–she is the body that gave you the scriptures, the body that Jesus built, the body that you hate (history and facts are sticky things). Good luck with that. And all you have proved is how cult-like your sect really is;) For that, I thank you for helping me accomplish my goal here.
            Pax

          • …AND…

            I guess I hit an exposed nerve?

            Thanks for the false witness, brother. Either show how I am “foul-mouthed” or apologize (I know you’ll never own up to the lies you spread about the Church, but I’m hoping you’ll grow up on this micro level). But I guess that’s the prob with so-called “Christian” prigs who’ve already judged themselves as heaven-bound… they don’t need to apologize or confess–they can be evil all they want because they, unlike St. Paul, KNOW they are acquitted.

            And your laundry list is pathetic–proved to be the chum of ignoramuses who don’t care about reality–who prefer any anti-Catholic narrative. In other words, you are Protestantism’s “useful idiot” (and I mean that in the best possible sense).

            But hey, let’s talk about FRUIT!!! Your sect/group believes in the illogical idea of sola Scriptura. And what does that beauty of a heresy beget? Thousands of clanging gongs competing with each other–all claiming to be “right”. Your model promises chaos and self-popery. Good grief.

            Pax

          • Either show how I am “foul-mouthed” or apologize

            I’ve read your posts and your comments on your own blog and on the blogs of others and if your mind is seared to the words that you have used then that’s on you.

            You’re so blind and deaf to your own words that you can’t even see how in the same reply you do exactly what you deny you’ve ever done.

            And you can whine about all the denominations you want being supposedly the sourced by the doctrine of sola fide, but keep in mind, Patrick, that one big body in universal error is no better than a thousand little ones.

        • Yeah, I saw where you stuck your foot in your own mouth, but I didn’t see the shoe that you’re trying to put on the other foot. Nice try though, but the facts do get in the way of such things don’t they?

          “But the Spirit says clearly that in later times some will be turned away from the faith, giving their minds to spirits of deceit, and the teachings of evil spirits, through the false ways of men whose words are untrue, whose hearts are burned as with a heated iron; who keep men from being married and from taking food which God made to be taken with praise by those who have faith and true knowledge. Because everything which God has made is good, and nothing is evil, if it is taken with praise: For it is made holy by the word of God and by prayer.” (1 Timothy 4:1-5)

          Does that sound like any “body” you know, Patrick? It sounds awfully familiar to me. It sounds like a “body” that bows before an earthly head while rejecting the word of God that comes from the heavenly head (Colossians 1:18, 24).

          And “btw” the same inspired man who wrote those warnings also wrote this when it came to his confidence about being saved:

          “I have made a good fight, I have come to the end of my journey, I have kept the faith: From now on, the crown of righteousness is made ready for me, which the Lord, the upright judge, Will give to me at that day: and not only to me, but to all those who have had love for his revelation.” (2 Timothy 4:7-8)

          Try studying the Bible for yourself, as Paul told Timothy to do, and as the Bereans did (2 Timothy 2:15, Acts 17:10-11). Such was done before anyone ever appointed a false head over the “church” and unlike yourself, Paul never put them down for doing such, but then again you haven’t shown much of an interest or ability to listen to what he said or else you would not belong to the “body” that you boast on behalf of.

          I feel bad for a person who has more confidence in an apostate leadership than they do their own salvation. That’s why it’s wonderful when a person can rest assured in the word of the Gospel of Christ and the salvation that God makes available through it and not have to worry about the uninspired and sorely misguided words of an apostate leadership.

          • Wow.

            The Catholic Church must have missed all those proof-texts when she A) Wrote them, B) put them in the Bible, and C) continue to read and obey them.

            So either the body that did all that, or YOU, does not understand the scriptures. I’ll go with the Church–sorry pal. Yeah, I know, you’re upset that the world doesn’t think you’re pope, but Holy Orders are holy, and you can’t just break into a locked upper room and claim it.

            Looks like you’ve never read a book. BTW, when your “search” feature starts to work, you might want to actually LEARN what the Church teaches about all those super-scary verses. (Do you really think all of us Catholics–especially super-smart converts–have never considered them?)

            Look, nobody id paying you for the number of times you tell yourself that the Church is apostate;) Calling the Church apostate because you don’t understand her scriptures isn’t a good idea–especially when you and your clown-car sect has never been able to show in any way how it is in communion with the “pre-apostate” Church. You see, it is clear that all you’ve been doing is projecting. Besides, your Great Apostasy theory, as you should know, is a really, really, dumb theory: http://patrickvandapool.com/2013/07/28/the-pretend-great-apostasy/

            Thanks for the jokes, bru-tha!
            Pax

          • Wow, more name calling, Patrick. How mature! You really do your gravatar justice don’t you?

            People like you prefer to go ad-hominem because they find no success in defending what they’ve said…especially when they like to feed their own ego to which it seems is ready to eat a buffet full without considering the cost.

          • And as far as your “pretend apostasy” theory goes, I’ll keep that in mind the next time the Catholic Church brings up the topic of celibate priests (you know, those guys who molested thousands of children around the world; the stuff that the Catholic Church and the pope tried to cover up – and that’s a fact, not trash talk) and the manmade “spiritual” season of lent.

            Those are just coincidences huh? Yeah, about as coincidental as a leopard having spots that it doesn’t think exists.

            Keep providing the name calling “punch” lines and I’ll supply you with some scriptures that have the ability to enlighten your eyes by the Spirit of God when it comes to the terrible errors of your church’s doctrine.

  2. But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed, and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness, (Romans 6:17-18.

    When one obeys the form of teaching, one may know he/she becomes a servant of righteousness.

    • Beginning: 1 Pet 3:21; Acts 22:16
      Continuing: 1John 1:7; Eph 5:8
      Reception: Col 1:13-14; Rev 7:14
      Proclamation: Mark 16:16; Matt 28:19-20

What do you think?

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